Comments on: Beyond the Mark http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/ One Mormon boy’s iconoclastic quest to remix and rectify his notions of truth, mind, myth, love, life, and transcendence. Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:22:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: mel http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-443 mel Wed, 30 May 2007 16:52:11 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-443 LOL! My guess that is that people would stop listening. LOL!

My guess that is that people would stop listening.

]]> By: Jonathan Blake http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-442 Jonathan Blake Wed, 30 May 2007 15:22:21 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-442 I see your point. Literal thinking will always be a temptation in connection with myth. Perhaps that causes more problems than it solves. I wonder what would happen if all myth and sacred history began not with “Once upon a time…” but with “This story never happened…”. :) I see your point. Literal thinking will always be a temptation in connection with myth. Perhaps that causes more problems than it solves.

I wonder what would happen if all myth and sacred history began not with “Once upon a time…” but with “This story never happened…”. :)

]]> By: mel http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-438 mel Wed, 30 May 2007 08:41:34 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-438 I don't care what context it is in ... to see the word "realist" used in favor of god's existence and "antirealist" as the antithesis ... this is just wrong! :) But I see your point. It's a question of whether religion is real as in literal, or antireal as in mythical/symbolic. I'm still going to toss my hat in with the realists. If I can't have the literal then I don't want it. In this modern age, if we can't find a better way to speak about the abstract and less understood than to use mythological constructs which subsequently tempt us to confuse them with reality, then I would rather stick to speaking about what we can understand using literal language. But I think we can do better. Science does quite well at framing the abstract, etc in non-mythical language. Let's try more of that. And let's turn over the mythic to the place it rightfully belongs: abstract and impressionist art. And maybe the Muslims have the right idea: maybe we shouldn't be painting or making any other images of god? Let's just agree not to do that any more -- not because god is too sacred, but because it's false advertising. I don’t care what context it is in … to see the word “realist” used in favor of god’s existence and “antirealist” as the antithesis … this is just wrong! :) But I see your point. It’s a question of whether religion is real as in literal, or antireal as in mythical/symbolic.

I’m still going to toss my hat in with the realists. If I can’t have the literal then I don’t want it. In this modern age, if we can’t find a better way to speak about the abstract and less understood than to use mythological constructs which subsequently tempt us to confuse them with reality, then I would rather stick to speaking about what we can understand using literal language. But I think we can do better. Science does quite well at framing the abstract, etc in non-mythical language. Let’s try more of that. And let’s turn over the mythic to the place it rightfully belongs: abstract and impressionist art.

And maybe the Muslims have the right idea: maybe we shouldn’t be painting or making any other images of god? Let’s just agree not to do that any more — not because god is too sacred, but because it’s false advertising.

]]> By: Jonathan Blake http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-429 Jonathan Blake Tue, 29 May 2007 06:49:18 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-429 I just learned that the ideas I expressed about myths <a href="http://theculturalhall.com/?p=106">aren't exactly original</a>. Darn! But they are on par with a “an uber-sophisticate” professor of philosophy. Yay! The idea that the question of God's existence is irrelevant is called <a href="http://www.lucs.lu.se/spinning/categories/decision/Herrmann/Herrmann.pdf">antirealism</a>. I just learned that the ideas I expressed about myths aren’t exactly original. Darn! But they are on par with a “an uber-sophisticate” professor of philosophy. Yay! The idea that the question of God’s existence is irrelevant is called antirealism.

]]> By: Jonathan Blake http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-425 Jonathan Blake Tue, 29 May 2007 00:37:20 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-425 I think we've always tended to take things literally. I don't know if it's a problem that has gotten worse through history. Maybe only the myth-makers really understood the myth. On the other hand, perhaps myths weren't even fully understood by those who first told the stories. As accretions of many stories, each of the myths that have reached our ears may be more properly understood as the creations not of a single author, but of an emergent mind rising out of the individual minds of humanity. I think we’ve always tended to take things literally. I don’t know if it’s a problem that has gotten worse through history. Maybe only the myth-makers really understood the myth.

On the other hand, perhaps myths weren’t even fully understood by those who first told the stories. As accretions of many stories, each of the myths that have reached our ears may be more properly understood as the creations not of a single author, but of an emergent mind rising out of the individual minds of humanity.

]]> By: Kullervo http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-424 Kullervo Tue, 29 May 2007 00:09:58 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-424 It's a direct result of modernism. It’s a direct result of modernism.

]]> By: mel http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-423 mel Mon, 28 May 2007 17:07:42 +0000 http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/05/27/beyond-the-mark/#comment-423 If it is true that we moderns tend to take these myths more literally than they were meant, and I think you're in good company with Campbell, then I wonder whay exactly it is that has drawn the human mind into it? I'm thinking of Joseph Smith and the way he taught so much literal interpretation and presumably in an effort to shore-up faith against ... what? Why were people searching and doubting ... or even falling to apathy after what I imagine were aeons of human contentedness in the cradle of myth and mysticism? (I'm not entirely sure this romantic view is accurate but at very least the answers of myth must have been good enough for most people, most of the time.) Could it be possible that the rise of science itself is to some degree responsible for the a type of human fall from innocence? That in having our eyes opened to a powerfully literal view of the world we were also tempted to view our myths in a similar light ... for better or worse? If it is true that we moderns tend to take these myths more literally than they were meant, and I think you’re in good company with Campbell, then I wonder whay exactly it is that has drawn the human mind into it?

I’m thinking of Joseph Smith and the way he taught so much literal interpretation and presumably in an effort to shore-up faith against … what? Why were people searching and doubting … or even falling to apathy after what I imagine were aeons of human contentedness in the cradle of myth and mysticism? (I’m not entirely sure this romantic view is accurate but at very least the answers of myth must have been good enough for most people, most of the time.)

Could it be possible that the rise of science itself is to some degree responsible for the a type of human fall from innocence? That in having our eyes opened to a powerfully literal view of the world we were also tempted to view our myths in a similar light … for better or worse?

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